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Americans appeal against ASUS\|c58Cooller! 12:58* 30 Oct '02 \| by: c58\|d1monn	Comments: 159
It is known now that the American team, saddened about the fact that after the Cooller's lost to Canadian [CCCP]Ni3 their top player, ZeRo4, is out of the run, has decided to appeal against the Russian player and hopefully disqualify him. The Russian team is really disturbed about this fact and there's going to be an investigation. The buzz that was made by the North American eSport press such as ShackES and Cached now it has it's dark consequences. In about 5 or 10 minutes the WCG comittee along with the Russian and American players are going to look into this matter. The American side has absolutely no real proofs, they just want to make a precident. My take on this - the American side has crossed all the lines and can't lose in a good way. Everything is being thrown into this and the scandal is getting politicized. Just recall the recent Winter Olympilc Games 2002 when the Russian team was badly judged in many disciplines - the history is being repeated. We will keep you up to date. P.S. Americans - learn to play and accept defeats. You are losing your good face... [!] Official decision: Cooller stays in the tourney; ZeRo4 does not.

Comments

#1 - 13:25 / 30 Oct '02 - Scorpion

Good face?
Who ever said they had one? :)
btw, even if Cooler lost to Ni3 not playing his full power he had the right to do so, ok?

#2 - 13:27 / 30 Oct '02 - SaShS

go home....
if u dont accept ur defeats... u dont deserve to be there. Cooller wp & nice practice before korea's grand final :)

GL!

ps: go Akiles! :)

#3 - 13:43 / 30 Oct '02 - zy

sounds hella BS to me...

#4 - 13:43 / 30 Oct '02 - USA

double standard
now that some quality journalism.

wtf?!

you talk about american sites being baised...what the hell is this post all about? you are doing the same thing you talk against. you hypocrite! also, people grumble that cooler was just doing what it took to win the moeny, nothing wrong with wanting to WIN at any cost right? but now when the EVIL americans ALSO try winning at any cost you say, "no this is bad, we cant have this".

you guys are just as lame as americans. you want to balme this on americans, no! blame it on cooler, the master of obvious. at least lose on purpose less obvious you dumbass.

#5 - 13:56 / 30 Oct '02 - Sorcer

Double standard???
What cooller did...he had the right to do it.
What the dumb americans are doing is cribbing about their loss. Accept it d00d. Americans are not match in quake. They may though be better in the court room fighting for cooller's disqualification.
What a bunch of lusers.

#6 - 13:58 / 30 Oct '02 - USA

and how does US players not have rights to do this?

why is cooler only one allowed to act like a shithead?

god you fanboys can be so stupid...

#7 - 14:04 / 30 Oct '02 - Damager

...
Get over it losers..
Cooller is just a scapegoat to take american minds off the fact that their player actually may have lost out due to him playing badly?

Anyone think of that? :)

GG Cooller.

#8 - 14:08 / 30 Oct '02 - asdf

2USA
Cooler did the tactical move in competition, but am. command do it with appeal after match. If we can't win, let's the others eat our shit, yeaa, this is your logician???
(Sorry, for my fucking english)

#9 - 14:10 / 30 Oct '02 - menkent

ok, first don't be dumb. if the judges who make the rules decide that what he did wasn't illegal then there's nothing to whine about. even c58 writers on a c58 site have to admit that it was dodgy of him, and if it'd happened in a CPL event there wouldn't even be a debate.

second, about the olympics. the judges admitted that some guy from the russian mafia bribed them. the trail of money was clear. it was canadians that got the second gold medal? why are you still whining about this?

besides, even if cooller gets disqualified won't it be logan that advances? he and z4 both had 85 frags, but logan won the head to head.

#10 - 14:12 / 30 Oct '02 - PnP

Is wcg an esport competition or what?
Pure gaming skill - that is what should lead to victory.

#11 - 14:16 / 30 Oct '02 - c58 | ZeroGravity

Haha! LOL @ americans! What r u talking about? And if Cooller wanna eat smth in match time ? Or just forget way 2 gaming area? If he just go shopping? u r all very funny americans....very funny =).

It's just his way 2 the first place...

#12 - 14:24 / 30 Oct '02 - asdf

2 PNP
If u think that q3 it' only aiming, u are wrong. U must have a mind in the head, and think strategical. Not only in game but how to play with every rival.

#13 - 14:31 / 30 Oct '02 - Jax

The fact is that Cooller had a bad attitude. He lost on purpose.
What that fuss is all about is if a player is allowed to do that or not.
WCG judges will decide.

#14 - 14:37 / 30 Oct '02 - Bert

Accept it
I think US players should accept the fact that zero4 hasn't progressed.

At the end of the day it comes down to the fact that zero4 didn't play well enough to progress. He (and the US team) need to accept that it's not Cooller's responsibility for zero4's progression to the next stage, it's zero4's responsibility. At the end of the day, he didn't play well enough to advance, not Cooller's fault by any stretch. Sorry US, but it seems like a whine to me, nothing more.

#15 - 14:46 / 30 Oct '02 - lol

cold-war part 2?
I think it was not the right decission loosing on purpose against ni3. this really is very bad sportmanship, but i hope this strategy will not get paid off, the best would be, if cooller would loose to his next opponent, then it would proove once again that unfair playing is not the right way to achieve your goals. i also don't understand cooller, he won against zero4 one time, so why shouldn't he win twice?
but of course it's a stupid decission by the american team to complain about that, cause it will not lead to anything.

#16 - 14:56 / 30 Oct '02 - name

Bad sportsmanship
You say this is how a competition works.

If WCG, quake esp, was a professional sports cooller would be thorw out.

#17 - 14:56 / 30 Oct '02 - no contest

CRY SOME MORE
usa are the biggest fucking crybabies and sore losers. taking action against cooller proves this even more.

Z4's OUT, GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

:)

#18 - 15:13 / 30 Oct '02 - just man

wau
any man say "cooller is win and get a way to next part of wcg and DON'T must pull out a hair on ass, to be zerofo go on this next part... cooller just relax and play for funny ;)"

[ sry man my fucking engl is so bad :( ]

#19 - 15:22 / 30 Oct '02 - prodx

you talk about american sites being baised...what the hell is this post all about? you are doing the same thing you talk against. you hypocrite! also, people grumble that cooler was just doing what it took to win the moeny, nothing wrong with wanting to WIN at any cost right? but now when the EVIL americans ALSO try winning at any cost you say, "no this is bad, we cant have this".

You my man a re a fucking idiot. Cooller did what was in THE RULES to get the money. Is he OBLIGED to defeat ni3 ? GROW UP ! accept it, he's out. PERIOD. god those cock sucking americans, YOU WONT WIN THE GOD GO AWAY. No i dot have nothing against americans, but against cocksucking americans, there's a subtle diffrence.

#20 - 15:24 / 30 Oct '02 - prodx

that should state GOLD. Man if Cooller gets disqualified i can guarantee that a -VERY- pissed off unkind is going to rape everyone.

#21 - 15:28 / 30 Oct '02 - prodx

#9 is totally right.

#22 - 15:55 / 30 Oct '02 - Exe

#9 nah m8, it would be a 3 way tie, so it would go down to frag difference

#23 - 16:02 / 30 Oct '02 - Jax

You Russians think Cooller is a great player. Coller have great skills for sure. But the man is not repectable.
It takes many things to be a great player. Cooller is skilled, but so much immature kid...

#24 - 16:03 / 30 Oct '02 - killah

bleh...
4 me it's just funny, cooller did what he want, that's all, byt it was unfair a little, but everybody can do the same thing, when you can win 20.000$? Nah, the problem is that the 2 sides of conflict have rights..Hmm TRAGICAL, no matter what you choose, It's WRONG :)

#25 - 16:05 / 30 Oct '02 - sunsky

It will be an hard task huhu
At this point, nothing is really fair.
I just parse WCG rules for Q3, and notice that :

8. Penalty for Unfair Play : The penalty for any unfair play such as the use of a map hack program, intentional disconnection, etc. is an automatic forfeit loss of the match.

So unfair play is forbidden.
But here 'unfair' seems to concern only hacks/cheats/disconnection or any modification of the game itself by a soft matter. So, theoricaly, human behaviour are not concerned.

just after, we can read this :

9. These rules are the rules for the WCG 2002 Final and can be subject to
modification in the following aspects.
Use of most recent patch version/release of each official game.
In-game settings and required factors necessitated by use of most recent patch version/release
Cheat Protection Program release and/or cheat protection functions
Game settings and/or operations guidelines dictated by differences between online and offline tournaments

So, the only way to change the rules do not includs human behaviour, or anything which is different of the written situations...

The only real problem, is the rule #8. The WCG comittee will have to interpret the exact application of it, and will have to decide whether Cooler's game was fair or not.

But a disqualification of Cooler would be far more unfair that his volontary(any real proof ?) loose.
Zero4 has loosed 2 games, against Logan and Cooler, and in all the others groups, only Dreg can proceed to the brackets with 2 defeats...
And if Cooler would have know the existence of any specific rules about behaviour description, he certainly would have not act like this.

Americans, you know what i mean, the fact is he used a weakness/miss in the rules, that's what all of your lawyer/business man are doing all days long.

So, i don't know what WCG comittee will do. It will be an hard job for them. Disqualify ? Re-play some (new) games ? (but who VS who, and is it fair for everybody ?) Do nothing, and update the rules for the next WCG ?

Now guys, Just remember it's only a game, no need to yell or do a war for this :) this is just a game, with money to win, but a game made for fun :)
(I'm french, so i can judge in an impartial way :D)

PS: Sorry for my sucky english

#26 - 16:07 / 30 Oct '02 - (Dh)-oz

I think that we cant judge the other people...
We couldnt know what was there, we can just read about...
Try to consider each other.

#27 - 16:10 / 30 Oct '02 - sunsky

Yeah.
By judge i mean judge the situation. Nobody can judge people, except God.

#28 - 16:13 / 30 Oct '02 - cSport . Lexx

God damned, u feking americans, u whine about Coollers lost to Ni3, think about yer selves now, u want to disq. even though Cooller beat Z4! Z4 is nothing now, forget him.

Simply STFU!

Be reel. If ur a big country it doesnt mean that u can be gayholes and do whatever u want.

Z4 LOST! HE DID! HE DID!

STFU NOW!

#29 - 16:14 / 30 Oct '02 - Hyde

Jax !
"You Russians think Cooller is a great player. Coller have great skills for sure. But the man is not repectable.
It takes many things to be a great player. Cooller is skilled, but so much immature kid..."

lol pliz shut up now you are from the most not respectable country...

Go make war usa this is a terrorism against you o/ o/ o/ like in irak for dollars ! yeah whining

#30 - 16:15 / 30 Oct '02 - .

ni3, logan, and zero4 should have a three person playoff.

in starcraft there were two multi-person ties. one three way tie for second, and one four way tie for first. both situations are having a playoff.

that would be the most fair to everyone (except ni3 :o)

#31 - 16:15 / 30 Oct '02 - menkent

meh, fuck em all. i'm still pissed that stelam isn't there >=[

#32 - 16:20 / 30 Oct '02 - cSport . Lexx

To sunsky: great post, respect o/

#33 - 16:29 / 30 Oct '02 - sY|VeNoM

Lolzzzzzzzz Cooler!!!
ZeRo rulzzz... 4ever :)

#34 - 16:29 / 30 Oct '02 - ktj

bla
if cooller lost to ni3 on purpose, thats kinda lame, but he has the right to do that....

#35 - 16:38 / 30 Oct '02 - i_perfect

Now listen up peeps.Zero4 made the same thing a while back ago when he diceded to step down from the US WCG qualifier since he had an autoberth.He did that so that 2 americans could go with him instead of himself getting yet another ticket and just having one more american with him.He forfeited the tourney in order to get someone else along with him.Cooller did the exact same thing.He forfeited his match so another person could go with him to the double eliminations.Nobody whined when Zero4 did it so why whine now?

Zero4 is out Cooller i still in the tourney,as easy as that.

End of discussion.

#36 - 16:45 / 30 Oct '02 - Jax

Hyde > lol no, i'm not americain, and i hate their leader too :)
anyway, i concider that Cooller'a attitude is not repectable. Russian players don't need tricky games to make great preformance. Death and Lexer for example.
I would never admire Cooller.

#37 - 16:45 / 30 Oct '02 - HiVe

hahahaa sore loser Americans

#38 - 16:45 / 30 Oct '02 - boenk

Well, in my opinion z4 is not the "unbeatable" quake-god anymore. I do not want to say that his time is over, but he (and all the americans) has to accept that there will ever be someone who's just better.
Of course, in games like q3 the map plays a quite big role in "1-map-qualifier"-systems such as wcg. But i think that a player at this level should be able to win the map even if it is _not_ his homemap.

Probably cooller lost to ni3 because he sees z4 as a bigger opponent than ni3 is, but hey, we're talking 'bout an e-sport tournament with a nice price money...

So maybe coollers behaviour was not as fair as it should be, but z4 would've done the same, and that's for sure.

btw, sry for my poor english, but it is a little bit "eingerostet" ;)

#39 - 16:50 / 30 Oct '02 - Jax

boenk : "So maybe coollers behaviour was not as fair as it should be, but z4 would've done the same, and that's for sure."

How can you say such things? Did z4 do things like that in the past? I doubt it.
You said others would do the same. Man, what a sucking excuse...

#40 - 16:52 / 30 Oct '02 - .

i_perfect,

zero4 didn't "decide" to step down from the qualifier. wcg *made* him step down.

he went there for practice and ended up being unable to play.

#41 - 16:55 / 30 Oct '02 - Hyde

Jax !
sorry dude :)

#42 - 17:01 / 30 Oct '02 - TenPin

USA : Hey, I should get through cos we're the previous champion and America rules the world.
Russia : pwned !

Hmmm let me see, ZeRo4 got owned by Logan and Cooller and now he wants through ?!

ZeRo4 should consider winning matches as a means to qualifying rather than expecting people to win matches for him.

#43 - 17:11 / 30 Oct '02 - sobel

Cooller GL
to some peeps out there....its cooLLer not cooLer....

He did excelent imo. Z4 is being sucha lame....shame on you you ex-champ...

#44 - 17:26 / 30 Oct '02 - ...

...
just tell me, if coller had a defualt lost against ni3, would he be punished? if not, i don't understand what is this discussion all about. btw, didn't zero4 quit on the us contest to the wcg? did it afect anyone? was he punished?

#45 - 17:26 / 30 Oct '02 - Diehard

What a bunch of whining bitches
Man I really think the usa team has gone too far, that just makes me angry. z4 lost twice and cooller can play anyway he wants to. I now truely think americans are wankers (for the first time), i am saddened. cooller is the classiest player ive seen just watch his demos, and he fucking owned z4.

#46 - 17:28 / 30 Oct '02 - just man

"great tactics from cooller" - that's is a result of this fucking scandal? ;)

yop

#47 - 17:35 / 30 Oct '02 - sizah

Sports are never fair, there is always min point with the refs or rules or whatever. Russians are known to do everything to win, same for americans, they dont care about if people like them or not, they only care about winning the prizemoney. We are not talking about a silly tournament which is for fun but we are talking about 30.000 $ what you can win which is allot of money. There is nothing about it in the rules so far as I know.. so there wont be a reason for WCG to disq. cooller. I saw a comment by someone and he said cooller wouldnt act like this if there was a rule for it and I agree with that. And it's bullshit that cooller is a player with no respect or whatever, please think before you say something since you dont know him.
Cooller wants to win that money and most of you know that cooller's weakest map is pro-q3tourney4.. and z4 best map.
If cooller will meet z4 again and on map pro-q3tourney4... he probably would loose that game and maybe wont win any money. I think it's a tactical action...

Its not lame and its not nice but it might be a good action or maybe not.

#48 - 17:40 / 30 Oct '02 - paprik

[!] Official decision: Cooller stays in the tourney; ZeRo4 does not

Z4 is a shame. Cooller is a pro-player.

#49 - 17:42 / 30 Oct '02 - delt

its..
neither z4 or coollers fault. WCG is to blame for this.

solution: play group games simultaneously and/or seperate plyrs from conregating with each other. keeping game scores from them would help too.

Good example of this situation: 1982 world cup Austria let West Germany beat them 1-0 so that both of them would qualify from their group at the expense of poor Algeria (zero4) :PP
As u all know, now all world cup group games are played at the same time.

WCG get it righ tbh. its the 3rd WCG and still they havent got a set of rules to help a tournament grow organically. They also do not have a proper seeding system.

#50 - 17:46 / 30 Oct '02 - Vlad

TenPin and Diehard you the babes :D
Pretty pathetic from the US team to resort to appeals, eh...

Pld the Korean officials, gl Cooller o/

#51 - 17:46 / 30 Oct '02 - Z4_being_lame

Automatic Qualifier Go Home
rofl #23, of course he is you fool, he's 16 years old! And if he were my kids, I'd be very proud of him.

You'd be a moron to bring your best game when the result does not affect your chances of winning the comp. Fact is, those games are where you try really risky stuff to practice for when you really are in a bad situation.

Zero4 didnt bring his best game, so he deserves to lose.

#52 - 17:59 / 30 Oct '02 - Dutch

As always: if the Americans cant win, nobody can! This is such bullshit, Cooller played a match even if he lost purpose, that's his own choise.

Man, Americans suck.

"Proud to be an American" liek saying: Proud to be an asshole.

#53 - 18:09 / 30 Oct '02 - weq

Uhm
americans even sue each other because of bullshit, thats what makes them americans!
keep up the awesome gaming, russia!

#54 - 18:15 / 30 Oct '02 - highendverpeiler

US just suxx?
zero4 didn't manage to win all matches.. so wtf are u american whiners talkin' about.. it's cooller goddamn right to play how he wants to.

don't cry, little american boys.. there'll be another wcg

#55 - 18:16 / 30 Oct '02 - ...

...
cooller is such a lame kid, he should not be allowed to play quake.
you russians are so stupid.
(i am no american and i liked the russians since this happened but your comments are as poor as you are)

#56 - 18:22 / 30 Oct '02 - Ein Paladin

Socrates still rules...
morons, socrates will kick u all .ru 's in the smelly dumbass's there :)

so think about it, which way to use to drive back to .ru with ur smelly bikes :)

#57 - 18:25 / 30 Oct '02 - wtf

btw, throwing matches has been illegal in the cpl since frag3. So what is so hard to believe about an appeal to the match?

All the arguments i've seen here are summed up here: 'GO RUSSIA, STUPID AMERICAN PRIDE, AMERICAN SORE LOSERS.'

It's no wonder you guys can't get anything done other there anymore.

#58 - 18:27 / 30 Oct '02 - Jax

The whole thing isn't about z4 staying in tournament or not. He lost twice, so he's out.

But we can't admit that anyone tricks games. Neither Cooller, neither anybody. Cooller is a shame to all Russian Q3 players community.

There are some peoples here who thinks that fair play is not that important. hum, they really should think twice...

#59 - 18:28 / 30 Oct '02 - Impulse

I'am gald I'm not American.

#60 - 18:30 / 30 Oct '02 - drthens

I THINK ITS FUNNY WE ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT "THE RUSSIANS"AND THE "AMERICANS"...OMG BUT ITS NOT WAR IT´S ONLY TWO GAMERS ONE TOOKS AN ADVANTAGE THE RULEZ HAD OFFERED HIM AND THE OTHER JUST DOESN´T WANT TO LOOSE AGAIN!
THATS ALL ZERO4 DIDN´T MANAGE IT TO WIN AND COOLLER KNEW HE NEEDN`T . Don`t let us judge sbd. who was just using his brain.

#61 - 18:32 / 30 Oct '02 - qew is dumb

Anyone heard of shaving points in basketball? Oh wait, that is "strategy" by the player so another party can take advantage of it all at the expense of the fans! w00t.

Of course, I dont know why Im showing sarcasm, when I know I will not get any valid responses. Either #1: You guys are dumb or #2: It'll be redundant rhetoric that has comprised about 40 posts.

#62 - 18:37 / 30 Oct '02 - Canada

relax people.
you guys need to stop judging entire nations based on one's decision =). What Cooller did is his choice and Z4's appeal is also his choice... if you wanna flame someone flame those individuals, don't bash all of Russia or USA...

#63 - 18:41 / 30 Oct '02 - ;;;

@#55
Euh why is cooller lame? Did he really throw the match? I saw him not really trying anymore the last minte of the game and even taking too much risk but hey he tried damn hard for the other 14 min so where is he throwing this game on purpose??? gg Ni3 you deserved the win.

What's lame is the americans appealing man that only makes them look stupid and bad loosers. Even if they would win this appeal this wouldn't help them as Z4 would still be out. I like Z4 but he just didn't win this time. He doesn't deserve to go through how sad this can be. If you really want an american to win give Daler some support.

Btw I'm not a russian or an american and I don't think russians are stupid or that americans suck. Just may the best win and if its up to me GO PYTHON GO

#64 - 18:41 / 30 Oct '02 - RocK

LOL @ zero4
when an american guy wins its ok, but when he lose quickly comes all and protest .
Cooller can play how he will, and he had the right to do so ok !
everybody can do it like zero4 and protest. LOL
zero4 can not lose.

#65 - 18:48 / 30 Oct '02 - Vazk

rofl, Americans are so retarded..

#66 - 18:52 / 30 Oct '02 - qew is dumb

whoa rock (#64), watch out there buddy, I think you were the 10th person to say that on this thread, congratulations on originality.

BTW, can I ask where the fuck that assumption comes from? I'd like see your response in the scenario that this was a cpl event and cooller tried to appeal his DQ and angel just showed him a printout of the rules. Cooller would be crying his ass back home and you would be on this forum posting redundant rhetoric just like the rest of the sickness.

Dont hate us because we have more developed sport ethics over here. (Im sure cooller didnt know that kind of play is dirty play in ANY sport in the states) In fact, Im willing to bet you'll see WCG 2003 rules a little differently next year.

#67 - 18:55 / 30 Oct '02 - `sHorty`

what cooller did hasnt anth to do with sportsmenship and thats what its all about in sports ...

#68 - 18:56 / 30 Oct '02 - purat0r

The age-old debate: RU vs USA :)))))))

Anyways...GO RUSSIA GO!!!!!!

#69 - 18:56 / 30 Oct '02 - [TA]LCLi

omfg
OMFG, there's absolutely no real evidence that cooller did it on purpose. Even though I think he did, no one can prove it ... So plz stfu; it was only z4's problem when he lost the match he wasnt supposed (against Logan). So Americans, stop whinning and accept the result.

#70 - 19:07 / 30 Oct '02 - xou

see wcg web site...
... why is cooler now 3rd, and zero4 2nd "auto" ? !

#71 - 19:10 / 30 Oct '02 - MntM

ahem qid
Cooller would be crying his ass back home and you would be on this forum posting redundant rhetoric just like the rest of the sickness.

yeah but mate, guess what - it didnt happen 8) so blow it

Dont hate us because we have more developed sport ethics over here

bullshit - just watch some of the crap that goes on in some
of these oh-so-noble american sports like the nhl the nfl etc
with perhaps the nba being an exception since basketball
particularly doesnt tolerate foul play. You watched nfl games
where the qb throws a deliberate shit pass and the refs cant
call it cos its too hard too tell? the qb's know it so they
do it knowing they'll get away with it 8)
that s just one small example for ya... keep ur eyes open
for once instead of blind patriotic pride and u'd see this.
What Cooller did may have sucked or not but dont bleat this
americans are so fucking moral bullshit when constantly
you prove the otherwise

(oh yeah a bit off-topic but speaking of american morality
when are those taliban prisoners you're holding (and i might
add in a place where you can use technicality of international
law to get away with treating them any way you feel like)
going to get a fair-play trial?) just a thought mr.
oh-so-moral

#72 - 19:10 / 30 Oct '02 - qew is dumb

!! #69
Well, I throw in some comments and the argument gets deeper! Yes, people can prove it, I assure you. I wouldn't want to get into details about the evidence, because I know I'll just get blasted on details based on your content. "heresay, noevidence" for the next 10 posts. *yawn*

LCLi, all in all, your argument is just arbitrary topped off with the regular expression of the sickness.

#67, I dont really understand your post, probably b/c it doesn't make any sense, but nt son.

#73 - 19:12 / 30 Oct '02 - Player

Z4 should more practice Q3, not war3 :)

#74 - 19:12 / 30 Oct '02 - Player

Z4 should more practice Q3, not war3 :)

#75 - 19:13 / 30 Oct '02 - Player

Z4 should more practice Q3, not war3 :)

#76 - 19:27 / 30 Oct '02 - Zeatrix

A swedes thought
Sorry if what I'm about to write has allready been writen. I didn't have time to read all posts.

My opinion in this matter is:
It was unsportsmanlike of cooller to do it.
WCG has no rule against it (unlike CPL) so then it is OK.
Still I wouldn't do it, but cooller did...

A side note: Someone in an earlier post wrote that both sides are biased, and I have to agree, this newspost are as biased towards cooller as the Shackes and Cached posts are towards cooller.

I've even heard that cooller confesed to TsN that he threw the game, so there was some proof...

#77 - 19:31 / 30 Oct '02 - Zeatrix

And on another topic
I truly believe that if cooller had the right to throw the game, then Zero4 have the right to protest. In every democratic country you have the right to protest, and both the US and Russia are democratic countries, so you russians should except his right to do so...

P.S I am still from Sweden and therefore unbiased

#78 - 19:40 / 30 Oct '02 - Zeatrix

Your wrong
Btw #35 i_perfect

The US was still gonna send 3 players plus Zero4, since he had an korean autoberh and the US had 3 autoberths. 3 + 1 = 4 ;-p

#79 - 19:42 / 30 Oct '02 - rorshack

#76: cooller didn't confess anything. That was rumors spread on an american site. djWheat later dismissed the doubt confirming he didn't confess anything. So there it is, this is a proof only in the way that it proves some people have written biased statements with false information.

#80 - 19:50 / 30 Oct '02 - tukii

Logan r0ks
;D if zero4 was win vs LOGAN_ES he pass to the next step, but if he lose why he cry ? ;) Logan is too in the group and he didnt say anything

#81 - 20:08 / 30 Oct '02 - tmt

... laws, laws, rules, rules ...
I think it is the WCG judgement's fault, even if cooller did this decision or not. I wondered why they (wcg dudes) didn't applied some fitting rules from some older competitive sport, like seeding, or the like. But hey, it is a newborn "sport" and needs to purify the rules. And it takes some time. PEACE!

#82 - 20:17 / 30 Oct '02 - SpaceFrog

I don't understand how Zero4 appealing a decision means that "Americans" have to shape up. How is Zero4 indicative of all America? Keep your stereotypes to yourself, thanks.

#83 - 20:59 / 30 Oct '02 - Annie Cohn

Good Wins Cooller
Consider the Tour de France: You have teams and individuals competing for top honors and prizes. The competitors employ strategy and tactics to hedge a victory, or "eliminate" one of the top threats from one of the other countries; and so do the other countries utilize strategies to block opposing teams like France or the USA, from advancing. It is part of the game. In the Kentucky derby, someone can get 'pinned' close to the inside and 'boxed' in, and cannot make a move - even though their horse may be the strongest. This is what happens from time to time.

I watch those demos and Cooller looks like a good player. You guys try to lighten up and have fun would ya... It is a thing to marvel at, that other players from around the world are playing this game, and producing some really good competitors. All this goes to bolster the play of Quake Arena. It is a fine little game. You have to admit. =)

#84 - 21:00 / 30 Oct '02 - Annie Cohn

If cyber "athletes" want to be taken seriously, you going to have to stop being babies about a loss. Everybody looses a game or two, has bad days, cannot hit the side of a barn with a shotgun. Sometimes you have down days and the other player has the edge. Good winners, know loosing is part of the game.

Individual players like Pete Sampris and Tiger Woods do not win all the games in which they compete. On teams, players like Brett Farve, seem to have a good time. Even in defeat, they acknowledge when they met a better match in the opposing team or individual.

In basketball, players like Micheal Jordan and Scottie Pippin, have been seen in the back court, passing rapidly back and forth, trying to keep the ball from opposing side as the clock ticks down. The other team has to foul to get possession, and then it is the privilege of the
team (who is sandbagging the other side) to shoot free-throws before turning the ball over.

The way to a win is by playing tough up front. Had ZeRo4 been the dominant player this year, he would have defeated Cooler and the other players in his bracket. His destiny was in his own hands and he did not win when it was time for him to win. How is it that people complain ... it was not like someone put a bar into ZeRo4's wheelspokes, or flipped the power off his monitor during a key moment? He lost two games. His returning championship passed
over him right then.

It is possible that this years winner, will be undefeated. He may go through the whole tournament without loosing one game (or only one game). Do you remember last year? How many games did ZeRo4 loose last year, on his way to the championship?

#85 - 21:03 / 30 Oct '02 - TDi.SLAyEr

I just got home from work and I saw this shit on cached. It made me laugh tbh=)
Play better if u want to win :>

#86 - 21:10 / 30 Oct '02 - omg

so lame!!
Zero 4 lost and went home because he wasnt able to win against cooler and logan. So it was his own fault not coolers.Stop beeing so fu**ing lame and accept it!

#87 - 21:40 / 30 Oct '02 - 11

Winter Olimpic GAmes repeats,US loose and has decided to appeal against the Russian.

#88 - 22:02 / 30 Oct '02 - Jeeva

That can only be a american
God they are bunch of assrammers.. they can't accept defeat and what cooller did was tactical playing. Atleast he used his brain.

Americans = looozers

#89 - 22:07 / 30 Oct '02 - vig

muh
this appeal is just embarrassing, z4 had even chances like everyone else to win every single match in his group, so what's the point here

#90 - 22:15 / 30 Oct '02 - Jeeva

#29 [/quote] Jax !
"You Russians think Cooller is a great player. Coller have great skills for sure. But the man is not repectable.
It takes many things to be a great player. Cooller is skilled, but so much immature kid..."[/quote]

I think 90% of the ppl at WCG are still kids. Sooo??. Its you against the "immature kids", they still rape you

#91 - 22:24 / 30 Oct '02 - USA-American

fuck off russians
Russians are a bunch of red faced faggots still bitter over the cold war and the fact that the United States owns them in every way. Remember, it's your countrymen that immigrate to the USA and not the other way around. Bitches.

#92 - 22:27 / 30 Oct '02 - USA-American

PS
every russian quake player i've ever seen looks like a fucking 5 year old kid even though they are like 17. all russians look like pussies and are pussies. just like cooller.

and that should be "emigrate" in my last post.

faggot russians.

#93 - 22:51 / 30 Oct '02 - menkent

why do people keep bringing up the olympics? it was canadians (Jamie Sale and David Pelletier) that got dicked out of the medal by some maniac who bribed the french judge. it had NOTHING to do with the US except that that's where the olympics were held.

#94 - 22:58 / 30 Oct '02 - Information

If you look at the WCG rules, ZeRo4 couldn't have advanced no matter what happened in the Cooller vs. Ni3 match. ZeRo4 and Logan were tied in matches won and frags, and Logan won their head-to-head battle. So Logan would have advanced instead.

If everyone had known this from the beginning, it wouldn't have been controversial at all - either 'Ni3 upset Cooller, wow' or 'Cooller thought he could eliminate ZeRo4, but instead eliminated Logan, haha he messed up'. (sorry Logan, thats what people would think :( )

I think that the 'controversy' is the fault of whoever was the first person to say that if Cooller won, ZeRo4 would advance. Was that Wheat, the same guy who did the 'interview' with Cooller after the game? If so, he got his information messed up and he should apologize to everyone (especially Cooller) for starting a controversy.

-------

About the US appeal - I think that the US team probably had the right information, and they knew ZeRo4 lost no matter what happened. If this is true, they the US team was just checking the rules to 'set a precedent', so they would know what to expect in the future at the WCG. NOT to try to get ZeRo4 to advance, or to disqualify Cooller...I might be wrong though.

#95 - 23:27 / 30 Oct '02 - heated

"The buzz that was made by the North American eSport press such as ShackES and Cached now it has it's dark consequences."

The buzz was made by all the viewers including myself who were disgusted at such tactics. We all saw the game on GTV and saw what he did. That you deceive yourself is a symptom of a very narrow point of view.

This has nothing to do with nationalism. Get a clue. You're so dug into your pathetic flag waving you cannot see things any other way. Nor can accept that people perhaps may enjoy the competition as a whole, and yet not cheer for a specific country.

I certainly hope that this doesn't set any precedent in actions in future tourneys by players. I.e "It's perfectly O.K to throw a game if it offers you a better placing." as an example.

It's laughable that you ignore this precedent set by Cooller's actions, yet focus exclusively on the arguing by a team. I guess that only works if you blind yourself to not see the evidence.

Btw, keep going with your ridiculous blanket statements about the arrogance and whining of americans as a whole. We certainly help foster that image, considering the actions of few define the many. Right?

Not that you had a point in your little nationalistic jingle.

regards,

an egocentric ignorant american.

P.S:

I'll try waving my flag harder next time.

#96 - 0:09 / 31 Oct '02 - V1ze

heated is right

whether it was cheating? no
whether it was b/c he was afraid? yes
whether it decreases the competition level? yes
gj on the insanely obvious bias on this post

they say ignorance is a bliss so i guess russia must be heaven

#97 - 0:34 / 31 Oct '02 - juni0r

i personally believe that cooller earned his spot
zero4 dug himself into his own deep hole

however, this post is extremely biased
and yes, i am american

#98 - 1:06 / 31 Oct '02 - TnXeh

ROFL @ THIS
HAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAA

Never had such a laff in my life...

Zero4 ("the best player in the world") Wouldn't be in any trouble if he simply would have beaten Cooller... There's nothing more to it.

But all the talk and accusations going on is quite amusing. Please go on.

#99 - 1:11 / 31 Oct '02 - c58|d1monn

hm...
ZeRo4 lose fat - 13:-1 @ pro-dm6 (QuakeCon 2002)

Remember this match?

May be we peplaying Quakecon 2002?

=) heh...

97 comments... this strange things...

sorry for my english =)

P.S. DJ|Wheat and fucking question - > Cooller's (he dont know English) about match against Ni3... this is starting conflict situation...

ZeRo4 - good player, but USA team administration - BAD GAYS!

its all

and

one more time (im training @ JeffK center!)

sorry my english...

#100 - 1:16 / 31 Oct '02 - boenk

Hmm, why do i think that jax is american? :p

Note that I'm not russian or american..

I am german and due to that i don't like dutch guys (they do not like us either ;) ) but i think that if22 is gonna win the wcg. You know why jax? Because i think that he is the most competitive player in this tourney.
And you should accept that z4 got beatten by cooller, so just stop blaming him for things he probably hasn't done...

(jax, i hope you know that since cold war is over the russians are your friends ;) )

#101 - 1:46 / 31 Oct '02 - wooooop

this debate coming from a country that kills cilivilians while "rescuing them."
#1 i dont think the american team was trying to dq cooller or advance zero4, just merely let the wcg know of their concerns.
#2 it wouldnt have made a difference anyway considering logan would advance
put the past behind us and lets see who wins this thing.
( i know i have my money on socrates )

#102 - 1:55 / 31 Oct '02 - Dutch

All I've heard from the American side is:
Cooller is a lamer because he gave up in the last few secs of the game, lost and there for eliminated ZeRo4. That's he's own right, he can play however he likes, you don't like it: >Go fuck yourself

But this is the only thing that counts: The Russians are raping all the so called "great" American players and there is nothing they can do about it :-)))))

#103 - 2:00 / 31 Oct '02 - Dutch

#92 - 22:27 / 30 Oct '02 - USA-American
#92 - 22:27 / 30 Oct '02 - USA-American

Haha, if Russians play like 5 year olds, you can imagine how much the Americans suck. Getting beaten by 5 year old kids :-)

Thanks for giving us a great method to evaluate the US Quake skills.

#104 - 2:38 / 31 Oct '02 - patoninja

quote
<font color=red><b>P.S. Americans - learn to play and accept defeats. You are losing your good face...

#105 - 2:53 / 31 Oct '02 - GW

well dutch, quite frankly i'd rather not see decent competitive play ruined by the throwing of games being accepted
and yeah its pretty obvious cooller left that last minute in ni3's hands
fighting long range agaisnt a rail with a shotgun, no player as high a caliber as cooller would do that.

Accept and encourage this type of play, and soon u'll see me competitions with behind the scenes agreements with players scratching eachothers backs.

Is this what you really want?

grow up and learn some manners, some of the posts in here are way too immature. Get some common sense, i think some people in here play too much quake3 to think straight

#106 - 2:54 / 31 Oct '02 - Vanion

.
you all are obviously gay.

#107 - 3:47 / 31 Oct '02 - t

nice manipulative journalism d1monn.

"bye bye ZeRo4.."

i read somewhere that ni3 bribed cooller with a loaf of bread.. probably cnn.com

#108 - 4:08 / 31 Oct '02 - Galv

the bottom line is this:
if cooller broke any rules, he would have been disqualified, since hes not, hes obviously not done anything wrong. Played cooller for using some tactics...

#109 - 4:14 / 31 Oct '02 - SUPER...Melon

:)
GG cooller !

#110 - 4:15 / 31 Oct '02 - God

hello?
Hi, it's the almighty here.

I must say that there has been a lot of hypocrisy here.

My advice to americans making fun of dead victims of terrorism is to think about how you'd react if somebody had have been making such comments post september 11.

To the guys making out like America is the home of fair play, I tender you such fine evidence as NCAA scandals (can't Americans even play college basketball without cheating), the way the Americans have 'defended' the Americas Cup, and the regular flood of US dope cheats that get found in Athletics. And hasn't even the great US sport of baseball had a history clouded in controversy with people rigging the world series. Hmmm.

To the Russians posting biased shit on their news sites, I say, "remember how you felt when you read biased crap on ShackES and Cached, stop making the same mistake".

To the rest of you trolls talking about terrorism, etc, I say "stfu noobs"

As I once said, do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. Or something like that, it's been a long time.

Love

God

#111 - 4:29 / 31 Oct '02 - N

I'm English, i'm neutral, my take
Cooller, first off...i can see why he did what he did, he lost on purpose to eliminate one of his main threats to winning WCG, on his partm it was a good move, not very sportsman-like, but who said he had to be? If an american had done the same, i reckon any high profile russian player would of also had a moan about it.

Zero4, you should of beaten cooller yourself and not had to deal with this, you don't deserve to go any further because you've already been bettered, twice?...

Cooller, good luck, i don't think you'll win, but nice skills in pissing the americans off, i like the fact that the "cold war" is still on :)

All the americans have huge ego's and aren't very sporting (except fatal1ty, who has a massive ego, but if he loses, he doesn't blame anyone but himself).

Quit yer whining, if22 or b100.death is gonna win it anyway :)

but good luck to sid n dreg :)

#112 - 4:34 / 31 Oct '02 - d1ablo

!!!
z4 - lame!
cooller - go!

#113 - 4:39 / 31 Oct '02 - rgnZOr

z4 is a lamer
Well ppl say that cooller is lame for losing and that z4 has never been lame... well thats bs... i have seen matches where he camps the last minute and runs away so he can secure victory (this happens on many many occasions)if that isn't lame or displaying bad sportsmanship then cooller did nothing wrong either.

it just gos to show ppl do anything for money even it shrinks there self dignity

RGN Out!

#114 - 4:43 / 31 Oct '02 - V.I.Lenin

Communism will own you.

#115 - 6:19 / 31 Oct '02 - Tompe Of Sweden

U.S SUCKS !!

Russia fucking owns !!

American people has always had a bad attitude no matter what.
They just can't accept the fact that they are NOT the best in everything and this was another proof of that.
And if they can't win the usual way they are willing to do whatever they can to give themself a new chance.
If you russian people wanna start a third world war against U.S i will join on the russian side.
I am almost as godo as a spetsnaz =)

I really hope some of the Russian players wins WCG.

#116 - 6:22 / 31 Oct '02 - Tompe Of Sweden

And besides.
All American players are WAY overrated.
I have been saying this whole year that Zero4 won't stand a chance against the best Russian players.
What does U.S have more then Zero4?
Socrates?
A guy that never have done anything in a big tournament and was lucky as shit that he even got to WCG since it was mainly thanks to Fatalitys mistake in the T2 game.

#117 - 6:53 / 31 Oct '02 - An Aussie

The 2 worst in the world.
I cant think of 2 countries in the world known for worse sportsmanship than Russia and the USA.
I just hope neither a Russian or American win.
Oh, winter olympics? Can you Russians say Ice skating and French judges?

#118 - 7:46 / 31 Oct '02 - canada

Easy wit the Judgin ppls
cmon guys, zero4 shouldve beaten cooller in the first place, and lets not turn into children and bad mouth other nations, based on one decision.

Ni3 and kuku all da way ;)

Nice joke (107)

#119 - 7:48 / 31 Oct '02 - canada

Easy wit the Judgin ppls
cmon guys, zero4 shouldve beaten cooller in the first place. Also Ni3 beat Logan and Z4 lost to him. Furthermore lets not turn into children and bad mouth other nations, based on one decision.

Ni3 and kuku all da way ;)

Nice joke (#107)

#120 - 8:10 / 31 Oct '02 - donnie p

its just a game

#121 - 8:25 / 31 Oct '02 - intero

this is so fucking funny, typically american or canadian stuff (sorry for the general point of view)
i just pray no american will be in top 5 and the russian legion or some real fair players will take their throne more proudly
zero4 did not performed well, so fuck off, thats fuckin it
really stupid attitude ever to be seen

#122 - 8:27 / 31 Oct '02 - intero

and yeah its just a game, but hey what about the money :) money makes some people envy and jealous

#123 - 9:32 / 31 Oct '02 - dg01

Note on the olympics: There was CLEAR cheating going on, why change the story? Why make up lies to protect yourself? It wasn't as if the russian people themselves cheated (which no one in the world thinks), everyone knows that it was the actions a few in the mafia.